Judi Bachman (Holtze)

I have been following all this from Copenhagen and decided it was time to weigh in.  Have really enjoyed all the comments and memories.  I too remember Nela Park.  American fascination for Christmas light extravaganza is impossible to explain to Europeans.I will never forget my husband's reaction (extreme culture shock) to dancing santas and reindeer in Los Angeles gardens in 85 degree heat.

 Budins -- that is a fond memory.  I recalled a time some of us wanted a bottle of wine and we succeeded in buying a MoganDavid (which none of us would touch today) with 2 cops on the other side eating their corned beef sandwiches. We really thought we had pulled something off.  But I do miss those sandwiches.  Nothing like them around here.  Corned beef sandwichs are top of my list whenever I manage to get to the States.

Patty,  I have really liked your comments on tolerance of color, race, creed and religion. People are people no matter where we live and where we are from .Having lived in 10 countries I have encountered so many different ways of life and cultures. One's life is enriched by this or should be.  If more people accepted others differences maybe the world would not be in such a horrible mess.

Betsy Dennis (Frank)

Judi, I didn't know you were in Copenhagen. I presented at a conference there in 2001 and changed planes there in 2011 on way to Oslo from Helsinki. That airport has a complete shopping mall including an H and M.  Marianne, I, too, remember Nela Park. My dad would drive us through. It was wonderful. We have a drive through park display here in Terre Haute, IN, but nothing like Nela Park!

And Joseph, Thanks for the great history lesson.

Betsy Frank

Vivien Abrams (Collens)

loved everyone's  Euclid Beach memories!  When I was 12, My dad took me there for my birthday  and rode the Thriller roller coaster with me12 times! 40 years later  I tried to do the same with my kids  at Rye Playland in New York, and thought I would die after the first trip.  Funny how your tastes change!

Alaine, so glad you mentioned Darlene Talley. I got to know her in the 4th grade when our Malvern teacher  Mrs. Roberts asked me to tutor her before class every morning. It must have been tough for her, We went in the hall and reviewed the days work or the homework assignments.  I hope I helped.

 She was very  very nice,and   was a member in good standing of  Horselovers of America club, a group of neighborhoold kids ( attleboro/ south Park) who wanted to buy   a horse to ride.. Unfortunately we spent  our club dues on refreshments for the meetings. lol.

Alaina Weisman (Zachary)

Ronald Simon!  So many memories of you, Jeff, your parents and the wonderful hours we shared playing in your beautiful home.  I'm always in touch with Lynn Marcus Shapiro, neighbor on my other side.  She's been keeping me up to speed for years.  Do you remember that we went to a Byron sock hop together?  Jeez, what a cutie you were.  All that dark culy hair!  I remember.  And your brother and I used to read novels out loud to each other.  He actually taught me speed reading!  And your mother was so glamorous!  It's amazing how much clarity of memories we have after so many years.  And thank you for the compliment! Yes, it's been quite a life and unusual at that!  I'm so grateful to have so  much energy and passion still.  I open Follies (a concert version) this week. Of course I play the old broad, but still singing and even some tap dancing.  Whatta hoot!             Nela Park was one of the magical elements of growing up in Cleveland.  How many of us bundled into our parents cars in our pajamas to see the annual light show?!!            I'm still and always checking flight prices from Albuquerque to Cleveland in hopes that something affordable will show up before the reunion.  I want to encourage Marianne to go ahead with a mini choir reunion and performance  Tom Osher, you were a singer.  Do you still?  Anyone remember the photo of  Paul Newman in some production or other in the choir room? Ok, enough!  Remember Bye Bye Birdie?   

Beth Lazerick

We rented one of the silver "space ships" for an anniversary many years back.  Perhaps we can do this again. I am nursing along my last pint of Dreeger's fudge, by the way.

John G Corlett

Joseph Blake  you amaze me with your vast insightful knowledg of Shaker history.  My dad always thought highly of you and your family  and am certainly proud to call you a friend.  Hope to see you in August.

Joseph G Blake

Jeffrey D Chokel

I remember "Shaker Day" at Euclid Beach where all A's and B's got you free tickets to use on the rides.  I also remember reaching out to grab the gold ring as we rode on the carousel. No auto seat-belts or safety rules in those days!  The Humphrey family continued to make and sell popcorn balls and taffy at a store (primarily wholesale) just south of Randall Mall, but sold it a year or two ago.  I still buy popcorn balls there to give out at Halloween.  For those with grandchildren in the Cleveland area or other relatives 3-7 years old I suggest Memphis Kiddie Park-- Not nearly as big or great as Euclid beach but a fun couple of hours for the wee ones.....  See everybody soon.   --Jeff Chokel

William L Kahrl

Everyone has done such a great job of recalling Euclid Beach, I wonder if someone can help with another bit of fractured memorabilia. Many of you may recall that in 2011, Peggy Caldwell at the school district's communications office sent around the centennial issue of Shaker Living which included an essay by faculty member Terry Pollack recalling what life was like at the high school in 1964.

Mr. Pollack did a  wonderful job of expressing his respect and affection for the school system. But he also reminded me of some things I don't remember at all.  At the time, I checked with two of our contemporaries, Ed Kovachy and Susan Weisberger Ratner, who were always much better at paying attention. But we were all at a loss.

According to Mr. Pollack, for example, two teachers were fired in 1963 for opposing the Vietnam War. And in 1964, the dean of girls was patrolling the corridors of the high school with a piece of carpet on a stick and girls were required to kneel on the carpet to make sure the hems of their dresses would touch.

No one I've spoken to ever encountered Ms. Burgess rampant in the hallway with carpet in hand, and none were made to bow before her. There were rules about gym clothes and  boys who wore pants that were too tight came in for close inspection. Susan recalls a rumor that the dean of girls at Woodbury Junior High did that, and she was also reputed to feel the girls' backs to make sure they were wearing full slips. But Susan never experienced any of this.

As I recall, the young women at Shaker generally dressed very well. Pleated skirts and sack dresses were still in style in 1964. Even in fashion forward Cleveland, mini dresses were still a few years away. Slacks were still banned for women, no matter how cold the winters got. But even so,  Mr. Pollack's account seems a little improbable when you consider that girls were allowed to have knees and even show them in 1964 if they participated in cheerleading, say, or swimming, or any of the gym classes that were required for everyone.

As for teachers fired, surely we would all have noticed that. Was I completely asleep? There was only one change in the social studies faculty at the high school between 1963 and 1964 -- Mr. Wheeler was replaced with Mr. Szwaja. But that was hardly a political event. Eddy pointed out that there was an uproar  over teachers who were fired for alleged Communist sympathies in the 1950s. But in 1963, our political consciousness, such as it was, was pretty much consumed with the assassination, the last of the freedom rides and  setting the agenda for civil rights reform. Angry protests against Vietnam were still a year or so away, and I don't believe they filtered down to the high schools until a bit later than that.

I agree that Mr. Pollock's version of history is certainly livelier, more picaresque and somewhat more quaint than we deserve to be remembered for.  But the truth is, I think we had a lot more fun than that.

Bill Kahrl

Betsy Dennis (Frank)

Bill. I don't remember those things either except not being able to wear slacks. I never knew teachers were fired, but perhaps we were not aware. Betsy

William A Sokol

Hey Willie -- I think Pollack is probably mistaken re teacher firings. For various reasons, I think I would have been aware of it had it happened. Very aware of it. But our senior year was still civil rights movement time for those of us so inclined - I was involved in Student CORE (SCORE) that year. Vietnam did not hit the student agenda until after LBJ was elected in November 64, and even in Berkeley, things didn't explode until the Spring of 65, our college freshman year - I remember my first "teach in" on Vietnam at Madison that first year - one which we all later found out was attended by a graduate student named Dick Cheney, who says that teach in was a turning point for him - that it woke him up and instilled in him the need to become politically involved -- .....anyway, I just don't think teachers were being fired for Vietnam politics in our high school years -- as for our elementary school years, well, that was a different story. And I appreciate, Willie, that we are all probably far more interested in his memories of what girls could wear - but I don't remember the carpet story either -- but Mr. Grigsby insisting on "no white socks" with suits was a rule I took great pleasure breaking at every formal event we attended....

Joseph G Blake

Joseph G Blake

Jackie A Liskay (Murray)

In response to girl's wearing full slips: I remember Miss Turner, at Woodbury, checking for full slips. I think if you were wearing a sweater she singled you out, also, if you were more developed on top, which some girls were, she would track you down and check. Today, teachers can no longer touch you.

i had an experience with her in 7th grade when I was experiencing extreme stomach pain. I went to her office and told her, I remember I was crying and had buttons on my skirt that I had unfastened. She wouldn't allow me to go home or call home. I suffered through  my last few classes and when I got off the school bus my Nana saw me, and rushed me to the hospital for an emergency appendectomy. My Mother called Miss Turner and gave her an ear full, and then some. 

in high school Holly Spector was sent home for wearing black fish net stockings. Way too risqué for school attire. I remember Holly being beautiful and rather artsy at the time. 

William K Dickey

I agree that all the Viet Nam resistance was later while in our college years, after LBJ was elected and the draft affected many more of our generation.  The anti-war movement didn't get really going until after '66.  as far as dress code, the part I recall is no neakers for boys.  Only hard leather soles.  My memory of Mr Swaja was while I took typing one summer down the hall from Mr Swaja's class, where he was leading the class in mock political conventions, parading up and down the halls.  I thought that was in 1960, as I am sure I was not taking typing in '64.  I guess people's memories are not as good as they think.  Collectively, we probably do much better.

Bill Dickey

Gretchen Effler

In regard to the political climate of the times, I confess to being pretty oblivious, but I do remember Mr. Snavely, whom I adored, pointing out that it was unfair for women to expect to make the same amount of money as men since men had wives and children to support. This made me vaguely uncomfortable, but I didn't have the knowledge to argue. Another sharp memory of Mr. Snavely's English class occurred when he asked which was the type of beauty described by Thomas Hardy in Return of the Native: the raven-haired, pale skinned Lauren Wyse or the blonde, peaches and cream Mary Truby. (Bathsheba Everdean, the book's heroine, had black hair.) Several boys in the class shouted out "Mary Truby, Mary Truby!" confirming that they had not read even the Cliff's Notes.

Regarding young ladies' undergarments, I recall that many of us, even the most slender, wore girdles to high school.  They were formidable spandex (?) affairs that extended down the thighs like Bermuda shorts. Since they were impossible to get on and off quickly, we rolled the legs up under the pants of our gym suits. There was a running joke that if one of us passed out, someone should just unroll the legs of her girdle. We were required to take showers after gym, but since there was so little time (and few of us broke a sweat, conscious of what that would do to our hair) we wrapped towels around, concealing the girdles, and dashed in and out so we would be marked as compliant on the gym teacher's clip board.

Gym seemed extremely stupid to me, and I remember signing up for archery with Judy Gerson so we could stand somewhere out in the green area behind the high school, yakking about everything and occasionally shooting a desultory arrow into a bag of straw.

It was years later that I discovered the pleasures of pushing oneself physically and took up running and then, after moving to Chicago, rowing in a women's eight. My greatest moment was when I was asked to be the permanent practice substitute for the men's eight, not because I was powerful, but because I could adapt to either side of the boat. 

My awareness of world events and politics expanded once the girdles came off, too. You get the metaphor.

Lesley Dormen

Jackie, thank you (I think) for sparking my memory of the Dickensian Miss Turner. I spent only my seventh-grade year at Woodbury, but I do remember the full-slip rule as well as the skirt length measuring. The ban against patent leather shoes (boys could see up your skirt in their reflection) has to be myth, yes? I can also see the wooden paddles hanging in certain classrooms in Woodburry. The last days of corporal punishment?

Gretchen's girdle memories (speaking of punishment) are all too real. Spandex, or its cruel ancestor Latex. I think those girdles date from eighth grade, after the acqusition of garter belts and  stockings. (Wait. Did girdles have attachments for stockings? I think I remember wearing tights in junior high.). A book is waiting to be written on women's lives and status as reflected in their undergarments. Here's hoping the Supreme Court doesn't find a way to bring back girdles.

I've also been remembering our high school literary magazine--Semanteme (?). Someone correct me if I 've bungled the name. And the irreverent Mr. Seidman, the English teacher in charge of it.  The day after Kennedy was assasinated, that dismal  Saturday, I remember reluctantly attending a previously scheduled staff meeting, then finding some comfort in the gathering. As a former member of Miss Shirk's Latin class, I vividly recall Dick Prentke (already graduated and in the school the day of the assassination on college break) coming into our classroom and whispering that first, early news bulletin to her. And her angry refusal to believe it. 

Janet Harold (Anderson)

I remember so well Miss Turner at Woodbury. Having skirt lengths checked, sending home someone because they  had a see through blouse on. But the thing she told in health class has scarred me forever. She said to be careful of your nose hairs, that a girl before had accidentally pulled on out and died from the infection!!! So I treasure mine,, I get my husband to trim his carefully--so afraid to die of that!!!!  Another memory is of Homemaking in Jr High, or was that high school? In the basement and the teacher always wore the same suit everyday--green. And if our skirts were supposed to be so short, why were we allowed to have a fashion show wearing baby doll pajamas that we made?  Does anyone remember the day the world was supposed to end in Jr hi. Many of us were in gym class on the front lawn and the world was supposed to end at noon, so as soon as the clock rang the hour, we all collapsed. I don't recall our instructor finding it as funny as we did.

Betsy Dennis (Frank)

Lesley, I remember I was in home ec when Kennedy died. I didn't have any other courses to take so I took sewing-ick. Anyway, I went to the office for something for the teacher and I came back with the news and the teacher didn't believe me and then Mr. Rupp came on the loud speaker to share the news.

Alaina Weisman (Zachary)

Betsey, I was in Home Ec that day as well, having satisfied my college requirements. I remember it all so clearly.  Plus there was an announcement on the PA. They must have let us out of school early and I also remember walking home thinking that life looked normal but it wasn't and would never be the same.  Sadly, these sentiments presented themselves when I watched the second plane hit in NYC on 9/11.  Walking home, I saw someone on their lawn and I wanted to shout... do you know? It was the only time I saw my father cry.  And he passed away less than 2 months later. 

Joseph G Blake

Joseph G Blake

Patricia Ann Richards (Armstrong)

Well, this is MY memory of that day that changed the world for all of is:  I was in Mrs Shirk's class...Jeffrey Chokel came on the tannoy..."the President had been shot"...and none of us knew whether he was dead.  Latterly, with newscasts coming in all the time...and they let is know then, we realised to our horror,,that the "young" President, with whom we could identify, was DEAD.

My next class was chemistry, with the wonderfully mensch-like Mr. Goodman.  We were all in shock,,and he announced that the class would go on "as usual"...SEVERAL OF US FREAKED OUT!  Namely Nancy Crumbine...who I think I remember "just walking out of the class".  I can't remember if I, or any of us FOLLOWED-her...I'd like to think I did!  Darling Mr Goodman got it wrong...this was a momentous moment in history...his goddamed lesson in chemistry had no more meaning than a flea to us kids,who were in such turmoil and grief.  I'll never understand why he took that stance...but it was totally the wrong stance. ,he was dealing with kids,who, by and large,had nevered SUFFERED LOSS...and a chemistry  lesson was NOT the answer....they were IN SHOCK!

Well now we're in the 21st Century, and observing it from my perspective in the UK...you guys are FUCKED!  The most, still powerful, country in the world cannot achieve a consensus.  What is it,with the "tea party" constituency..What is it with the Democrats...why can they not see the OBVIOUS!...why can they not see that a "consensual" government, where people are working  together, is the only way we're,going to make this planet habitable for our grand child's kids.  I give up!  There are just so many people who are living,"for the moment" and FUCK the arseholes who follow.

I'm afraid that there needs to be one helluva rethinking, if we are going to be "happy folk"

And now there's the 3 Israeli kids,.abducted!and murdered??Probably by single individual,with hatred and personal vengeance in mind..This is NOT STATE VENGEANCE ....REALISE it's the act of fanatically hatred filled,person...it's not, necessarily HAMAS.

For God's, Buddha's, Allah's sake...what are we,human beings,playing at...does every mother not love and protect,her,child...does not every father not take pride in the child...I  think God got it wrong,,somehow....if you believe in Him...He coulda, shoulda,,woulda got it a lot less difficult to be "decent" human being.

WELL,FOR,ANY DECENT CHRISTIAN, I've LOST THE PATH....but for those of you,who are still searching, I'm with you...all things small and all things large...there is a purpose.

ALL things must come to an end...and I've got to teach  tomorrow.

i'll go up two flights of narrow stairs...and,will find my two very affectionate cats awaiting,me, on my bed..I'll ,organise a mutually  OK WAY of,letting me sleep and them getting affection.

Signimg  off...

Patty Ricnards Armstrong

Julie Grodin (Barnett)

So glad that someone else has the same memory! I also was in Mr.Goodman's class and was shocked that he continued. (I think he may even have given us a quiz.) As I recall, when the class met again the following week there was alot of discussion and he explained that his brother had served in Korea and that he had learned that in a crisis, best to just carry on with routine.

Beth Lazerick

I was in the office as an aide.  I actually walked down the hall and told some teachers.  I remember assembling in the gym and then walking to the Rapid.  I had to go to the west side of town for a youth group meeting (others were on their way from out of town) and the next day I found out I got accepted at college.  What a weekend!

Beth